Episode 604
Venue 13, Icelandic Ghosts, and the Bohemian Life — An Author Interview with David Jon Fuller
Todd had a surprise birthday party. Sean kept recording anyway. Happy birthday, Todd.
This week Sean sits down alone with author David Jon Fuller, whose debut novel Venue 13 is out now through Turnstone Press. What starts as a conversation about a ghost story set in a haunted Winnipeg theater quickly becomes something much deeper — a wide-ranging discussion about creativity, the bohemian life, what it costs to make art, why Icelandic culture produces so much of it, and how you keep your creative self alive when real life gets in the way.
David has a background that covers theater, acting, the Winnipeg Fringe Festival, two years living in Iceland on scholarship, journalism at the Winnipeg Free Press, and now fiction writing. The connections between all of those things — and between his life and the life of his novel's protagonist Robert — turn out to be more intertwined than even David realized going in.
Along the way: the creative parallels between Iceland and Winnipeg, why doom scrolling is the enemy of reflection, what it means to romanticize the bohemian artist life versus living it, the Fringe Festival, INXS and Michael Hutchins, Def Leppard at Christmas, Kiss in October, the Killer Dwarfs and a handmade wooden box set that David built himself and got the whole band to sign, and why asking your library to stock a book is one of the best things you can do for a Canadian author.
About the book:
Venue 13 follows Robert, an actor who buys a haunted downtown Winnipeg theater while working a restaurant job to keep the lights on — a man at a creative crossroads, trying to hold his artistic dream together while real life pulls in every direction. It's a ghost story, but it's also much more than that. If the main building sounds familiar, Sean figured out exactly which one inspired it.
About the guest:
David Jon Fuller is a Winnipeg writer, journalist, and former actor whose Icelandic heritage took him to Iceland for two years on scholarship, where he became fluent in the language, performed in student theater productions in Reykjavik, and developed a deep connection to Norse folklore and ghost stories that runs through his writing to this day. He also copy-edited Chadwick Ginther's Ravenstone books, which is a very Winnipeg small world moment.
Venue 13 is available at local bookstores, Chapters, Amazon, and — David's preference — by request at your local library.
Find David:
- Website: https://www.davidjonfuller.com/
- Bluesky: @davidjonfuller.bsky.social
- Instagram: @davidjonfuller
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Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Ravenstone
- Turnstone
- Killer Dwarfs
- Helix
- Kick Ax
- Def Leppard
- Sigur Rós
- Weakerthans
- Manitoba Chamber Orchestra
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Transcript
Listen to the Sean, Sean and Geek.
Speaker A:The Sean, Geek and Crash Site podcast.
Speaker A:Yeah, you got it, folks.
Speaker A:It's me again with a little aptitude for all you out here in white bread land.
Speaker A:Let's see, we're on 92 FM.
Speaker A:Feels like a nice, clean little band so far.
Speaker A:No one else is using it.
Speaker A:The price is right.
Speaker A:Don't you find it, crusty, Dave?
Speaker A:This is bigger than friendship.
Speaker A:This is what you call cosm.
Speaker A:And the Buddhists call it, let me see.
Speaker A:Reincarnation.
Speaker A:Mushi, Mushi.
Speaker A:Hey, wait a minute.
Speaker A:Since when is Pismo beach inside a cave, I wonder.
Speaker A:You know, I just think we should have turned left at Albuquerque and then maybe a right turn at La Jolla.
Speaker A:Shush.
Speaker B:Hush, please.
Speaker A:Welcome to the Sean, Geek and Fast Fret podcast.
Speaker A:Todd is away.
Speaker A:He's not here today.
Speaker A:It's his birthday today, so he asked for the night off because we were all set to record tonight and do an episode.
Speaker A:And then, lo and behold, there was a surprise party planned for him.
Speaker A:And I was told to cancel the podcast for tonight and let him go enjoy his party.
Speaker A:But I said, well, I'm not canceling.
Speaker A:I'm still gonna run the show.
Speaker A:But happy birthday, Todd.
Speaker A:You turn a beautiful 21.
Speaker A:I'm just lying.
Speaker A:That's not true.
Speaker A:But yeah, so today.
Speaker A:So we're gonna do something a little bit different today.
Speaker A:We haven't done one of these in a while.
Speaker A:I was contacted by the folks at Ravenstone or Turnstone, and we have kind of like an author series.
Speaker A:We bring authors on from.
Speaker A:From either one of those imprints, and we talk with them and get to know them and try to get to the person behind the book.
Speaker A:Not just talk about the book, but get behind the book.
Speaker A:Who's the person that wrote this and what inspired them to write what they wrote.
Speaker A:So tonight we have.
Speaker A:I'm going to try to pronounce this correctly.
Speaker A:David.
Speaker A:Ah, I can't do it.
Speaker A:David Yon Fuller.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Hello, sir.
Speaker B:How are you doing?
Speaker B:I'm great.
Speaker B:How are you?
Speaker B:Thanks for having me on.
Speaker A:Not too bad, not too bad.
Speaker A:As you can see, I'm in my work office.
Speaker A:I got my background work office here.
Speaker A:I think it's a carryover from this other show that's on our network.
Speaker A:And I don't know, they keep coming in into my software and putting up backdrops for me, and I'm not tech savvy enough to take them out.
Speaker A:Could be my kids, I don't know.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:So let's hear about you.
Speaker A:So you've Got this really kind of interesting, kind of eclectic background that when I was contacted, I'm like, this is.
Speaker A:There's a lot of interesting stuff going on here.
Speaker A:You've done some acting, you've done some fringe, but you've also done a heck of a lot of writing.
Speaker A:And you have an Icelandic background connection to Gimli, I'm assuming, as well.
Speaker B:I can answer that right away.
Speaker B:My Icelandic roots are actually not in Gimli, they're in Selkirk.
Speaker B:But I'm very familiar with Gimli because I've been there many times, and we can talk about that, too.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker A:Chadwick, who's been on the show before a number of times, has a very strong tie to Gimli.
Speaker A:One of his books was actually set in, like, part of the book was set in Gimli, and it's where.
Speaker A:It's my place I go to with my family.
Speaker A:When I'm feeling a bit of a creative lull, I'll go up there, recharge my.
Speaker A:Recharge my bones, recharge my brain, do some writing while I'm out there, songwriting or whatever, and just kind of recharge.
Speaker A:It's there.
Speaker A:There's something about Iceland or Gimli or whatever or that culture, that background, that is so inherently creative.
Speaker A:Would you agree?
Speaker A:What's your take on the Icelandic culture, the creativity within the Icelandic culture?
Speaker B:Well, as a half Icelandic person, I will have to take full credit for that and say, yes, of course, Icelanders are very brilliant and creative and hardworking, and they are responsible for so many good things that we want to take credit for.
Speaker B:But the.
Speaker B:The truth of the matter is, I think that Iceland, as an island nation, island culture, is similar to Winnipeg and Manitoba in a way, because we're a little bit isolated from some of the bigger cultural forces in our country.
Speaker B:Iceland is its own place, obviously.
Speaker B:And that kind of, I would say relative isolation breeds a lot of interesting creativity.
Speaker B:There's a lot of weird, wonderful things that come out of Manitoba.
Speaker B:And sometimes when you talk about music, like you guys were talking about in your podcast a while ago, about, you know, the interesting musical influences and, you know, bands like the Weaker Dance, or this band came from so and so, I think that sort of semi isolation breeds a certain desire to be creative.
Speaker B:And I saw that a lot when I lived in Iceland.
Speaker B:I kept forgetting that there were only like 350,000 people there because they acted like they were Great Britain.
Speaker B:You know, they had centuries of literature and music and poetry, and when I lived there, lots of drama, like Live theater was a huge part of the day to day life there, which kind of surprised really.
Speaker B:So, yeah.
Speaker B:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:People had their favorite stage actors, which I would kind of blew me away coming from Winnipeg.
Speaker B:Like, I had come up through theater at the University of Winnipeg and done the Fringe Festival and that sort of thing.
Speaker B:And a caveat is Iceland is a small country.
Speaker B:So the actors that you see on stage in Reykjavik at the National Theater are to be the same ones that are on, you know, tv, sketch comedy and whatever movies get made.
Speaker B:So, yes, you will get to know certain names and certain faces.
Speaker B:But I fell into that just like, oh, I want to see that one.
Speaker B:It's got that Sigur guy, he's really good.
Speaker A:There's a lot, there's a lot of, a lot of greats that come from there.
Speaker A:There's, it's, it's on my bucket list of places to go.
Speaker A:But I've got, I've got a few other places.
Speaker A:We've got an Ireland plan down the road.
Speaker A:That's my background and I've never been, oh yeah, we're due, we're due.
Speaker A:But as people who follow our social media know, my, my air conditioning and furnace died last week during the ua.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it was everything I could do to keep my kids sane, keep my dog safe.
Speaker A:It was painful.
Speaker A:So a lot of the money that was going to go towards that trip obviously went somewhere else last week.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:But crappy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So can we kind of, kind of go.
Speaker A:Go in the past a bit?
Speaker A:So you said you lived out there in Iceland.
Speaker A:Was that you?
Speaker A:Were you born there?
Speaker A:You said so you said you're half Icelandic, so what's the history there?
Speaker B:By descent, my mom's family is Icelandic and like by descent, my, her, her family's roots are in Selkirk.
Speaker B:That's where that Icelandic.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Part came from.
Speaker B:They were all over North America and Manitoba, but that's where my family has roots from.
Speaker B:On the Icelandic side, my dad's family's English.
Speaker B:And so no, I was not born there.
Speaker B:Several generations removed from it.
Speaker B:My Longama spoke Icelandic as the first language along great great grandmother and my amma, my grandmother also spoke Icelandic growing up, but lost it because, you know, in school they didn't want anyone to speak anything but English.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so by the time I had finished my theater degree and had been doing, you know, some plays here and there in Winnipeg, I was at sort of a crossroads and I thought, oh, geez, I would love to go to Iceland.
Speaker B:I would really like to just see It.
Speaker B:And I was thinking maybe I'll go for two weeks and have a little vacation and then I'll get on with my career.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I didn't really know where I was going to head next.
Speaker B:And it turned out that there was an opportunity to apply for a scholarship that would basically, it would pay your way for a year if you got it.
Speaker B:And I thought, well, sure.
Speaker B:And the idea was that you're in this program at university to learn Icelandic.
Speaker B:And I thought, I'll get to know my relatives over there, maybe I'll get to meet them.
Speaker B:And this was a huge opportunity.
Speaker B:So I applied for it and I got it and that was what I was doing.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was really.
Speaker A:Oh, that's cool.
Speaker B:Very huge opportunity and also pretty humbling because Icelandic is a hard language and it was much harder than I thought.
Speaker B:Even though I'd taken a year of some classes here at the Scandinavian center in Winnipeg.
Speaker B:I had my head around the Alphabet and some pronunciation, but the grammar is something else.
Speaker B:So that was, that was hard.
Speaker B:But of course I thought, you know what, I'll try and find entry points where I can.
Speaker B:I got to meet some of my cousins, get to know them.
Speaker B:I joined a student theater group at the university there and.
Speaker A:Oh wow, you even did that too.
Speaker A:That's fantastic.
Speaker B:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:I was about to say I was incompetent at everything for a good four months, could not understand anything.
Speaker B:And we're trying to do translated, you know, into Icelandic sections from Chekhov.
Speaker B:And I'm really.
Speaker A:Oh boy, I have never been so.
Speaker B:Out of my depth.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I was really feeling it by December was like, I'm never going to learn this language.
Speaker B:I don't get it at all.
Speaker B:That wasn't true.
Speaker B:Anyway, to make a long story short, after the first year I was fluent enough and I've been through some performances there.
Speaker B:We did some shows.
Speaker B:And then I applied for the same scholarship and got it a second time.
Speaker B:So I did a second year and by the end of the second year I was very fluent and was able to read, write, speak, and sometimes pass for Icelandic if people didn't notice my screw ups in the grammar.
Speaker B:Too often it helps if you kind of look Icelandic, which I do.
Speaker B:I got from my mom's side.
Speaker B:But sure, sure, I sounded pretty Icelandic.
Speaker B:I was told, I can't believe you.
Speaker A:Went out there like on, on that.
Speaker A:Like that's like phenomenal.
Speaker A:Like your dream is to, you know, to go home, right.
Speaker A:And, and to actually follow through and do it and then.
Speaker A:But I like that you Went and you actually did stuff.
Speaker A:You didn't just, you know, go there.
Speaker A:Like, you.
Speaker A:You're participating in everything.
Speaker A:Like you seized an opportunity by the.
Speaker A:By the shirt and curlies, and that's fantastic.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, I mean, it would not have been possible for me without that scholarship.
Speaker B:So I got to give thanks to the granting body.
Speaker B:And part of my reasoning was because I.
Speaker B:Like I said, it was at this sort of career crossroads.
Speaker B:I thought, you know, I can wait till I'm retired and go when I'm 65 and go to Iceland for two weeks or however long I can do it.
Speaker B:That would be fantastic.
Speaker B:However, if I have an opportunity to do at this point in my life, it's going to affect the rest of my life.
Speaker B:And that was my motivation.
Speaker B:And it has been very true.
Speaker B:It has affected so much in my writing career.
Speaker B:The way I think about things, the way I understand the world and the way I understand family and history opened up my eyes to so much, and it was a great opportunity.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:I didn't know that coming into this.
Speaker A:So I'm actually kind of a little bit blown away.
Speaker A:I apologize if I'm a little, like, off put.
Speaker A:It's one of those things that you kind of.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:So reading your book that we got to talk with venue 13, I'm reading bits and parts of it, and I apologize, I'm only 200 pages in, but I didn't do any reading, hardly any reading last week.
Speaker A:It was just keeping the family alive through the heat wave.
Speaker A:But I got halfway through, I think about halfway through.
Speaker A:I'm at 200 and something.
Speaker A:But the thing that I was noticing in there, and just from you telling me what you just told me now, there's something about that the main character, who's.
Speaker A:He's at a crossroads as well.
Speaker A:So I'm like, okay, I could see where you pulling, you know, pulling the motivation from, but it.
Speaker A:It sounds like this guy hasn't, like, maybe the theater is that same opportunity that you had in the theater is where everything's going to, you know, coalesce.
Speaker A:Everything's going to, you know, work out.
Speaker A:So I like getting.
Speaker A:When we have authors on this is like, this is the kind of stuff I'm looking for.
Speaker A:So how did you get the motivation to write this book?
Speaker A:Where did you pull?
Speaker A:And that's what I'm seeing here.
Speaker A:This is like you're pulling from your history.
Speaker A:That's great.
Speaker B:I think it's really astute observation.
Speaker B:And I'll be honest, I hadn't thought of that, when I was writing it, I think you probably pulled out something that was subconsciously there as I was writing it.
Speaker B:Now, the Venue 13 is the story of an actor named Robert who buys a theater.
Speaker B:He has this idea that he's going to host theater productions in the city's annual summer theater festival.
Speaker B:I call it that.
Speaker B:It's nicknamed Skeeterfest in the novel, but it's inspired, obviously, by the Winnipeg Fringe Festival.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And for those not from Winnipeg, I think we need to clarify.
Speaker A:Skeeter Fest, you're obviously referring to mosquitoes and our mosquito season here, which is unusual.
Speaker B:It's sort of we get winter and then we get mosquitoes in construction.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:Those are the two seasons.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker B:And then we have spring, which I hate is the worst season in Winnipeg because it's potholes and muck.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Everywhere else, people write odes to spring, and here is like, oh, no, not here.
Speaker B:My co worker at the Free Press, Gen Zaretti, refers to, I think, most of March as second February, like the hobbits might, because it's just the worst, and it's not even an improvement.
Speaker B:So the story is about this actor, buys the theater.
Speaker B:But what he doesn't know, aside from the mortgage and the repairs he's got to do, is that the place is also haunted, and he doesn't believe it's haunted.
Speaker B:And this is part of the problem for the first, as you've seen, the first section of the book, where weirder and weirder things go wrong.
Speaker B:And he doesn't believe that there's anything beyond the physical.
Speaker B:Of course it is.
Speaker B:And part of.
Speaker B:Part of where I think the Icelandic experience comes in here is I don't have, you know, Icelandic flags planted on the pages or a lot of Icelandic names and whatnot.
Speaker B:So it isn't explicitly, you know, that.
Speaker B:However, one thing that struck me a lot when I lived there, and one of the things I really wanted to do is learn about folklore, history, legends, myths.
Speaker B:I wanted to read all the Eddas in Icelandic, of course, because I was a total nerd and a keener.
Speaker B:But what I was surprised by, I thought that the folktales that I would be reading would be very much about, say, trolls and stuff.
Speaker B:And there are a lot of good Icelandic trolls.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I had nightmares from some of them.
Speaker B:But what they have way more of are ghost stories.
Speaker B:Like every kind of ghost story.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:And it goes back to the sagas, where the ghosts are actually physically dead people coming out of the grave to sort of More spooky apparitions in later centuries.
Speaker B:So writing a ghost story, to me, I think was sort of a subconscious is pulling at my Icelandic sensibilities a bit there, because there's something about the past that doesn't stay buried, and that's very much what the story is about, or the ghost is a real part of the story.
Speaker B:But there's a lot of old ghosts.
Speaker B:For Robert and for other characters that get pulled out by this experience of things going wrong in the theater.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:Even though, like.
Speaker A:So when I heard it was a ghost story, I'm like, well, I don't usually read ghost stories, but my person at Turnstone, she's, You know, she's like, no, you know what?
Speaker A:You're gonna connect with this.
Speaker A:Like, she.
Speaker A:She trusts.
Speaker A:She.
Speaker A:She knows what I like, what I don't like.
Speaker A:I like a lot of different things, and I like to try things, and I always wanted to challenge what I'm reading and.
Speaker A:But the interesting thing is, even though it's a ghost story, it's not just a ghost story.
Speaker A:I like all the little.
Speaker A:I identified really a lot with him because he's working.
Speaker A:He's working his job at a restaurant.
Speaker A:He's trying to do the theater thing.
Speaker A:He's trying to balance both.
Speaker A:He can't afford to do the theater thing on his own.
Speaker A:He does need to have his job, and it's a job that's.
Speaker A:It's like a tweener job, you know, between, you know, getting the big thing, getting the theater going and all this.
Speaker A:And when I was in my early 20s, I was kind of doing the same thing.
Speaker A:I was writing my books, and I was.
Speaker A:And I was going to school, and I was doing all these things, but the whole goal was to just balance all that stuff until my creative career took off.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And, boy, did I identify with him.
Speaker A:I was like, oh, my God.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:And he's.
Speaker A:You're trying to do everything, and you're like, oh, my God, I can't get the bills paid because maybe I did too much with.
Speaker A:With the artistic side of things.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it was.
Speaker A:It was incredibly relatable.
Speaker A:Like, I.
Speaker A:So there must be some autobiographical bits in there, because it was just so real.
Speaker B:Well, I. I'll be honest.
Speaker B:I worked in a restaurant many years ago.
Speaker B:I know a bit of what that life is like.
Speaker B:I was never quite a lifer in the service industry, but I. I did it for enough time that I saw how it.
Speaker B:It demands a lot of energy, but it also allows you a bit of that freedom.
Speaker B:I literally did have a job working as a line cook and then took time off to do what was one of my first professional theater shows.
Speaker B:The service industry is great for things like that because they can just cycle somebody else into your position.
Speaker B:So I did understand a bit of that.
Speaker B:And the sort of calculus you do, as you just said, it's like, well, this is paying the bills.
Speaker B:It's not paying a lot of them, but it's paying enough to keep the lights on.
Speaker B:And then I'm going to take another six hours in my day and do this creative stuff.
Speaker B:It's like, that's a hard workload for anybody.
Speaker B:So some of that is definitely in the book.
Speaker B:And part of it is people have asked me, when they read, it's like, oh, so this is based on this building, right?
Speaker B:Or this is based on that?
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, Sometimes they're right and sometimes they're not.
Speaker B:Or else they have friends, like, no, no, it's got to be this.
Speaker B:I deliberately keep some of the Winnipeg geography vague in this because.
Speaker B:Okay, you know, I want people to imagine where it would be.
Speaker B:I say the building is on this.
Speaker B:This downtown street north of Portage.
Speaker B:Okay?
Speaker B:You can imagine what that kind of building would look like.
Speaker B:But to be honest, the venue 13 that I described, which has got like a restaurant on the main floor and an unused second floor and then a theater space on the floor third, is very much modeled on the old Freemason slash former Mother Tucker's building, downtown Winnipeg.
Speaker A:That's the first thing I thought.
Speaker A:That was the first thing I thought.
Speaker B:You guessed where my mental geography was.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:Because I had worked on a show there called the Reverend Otis show by DJ Dayton when it was called Venue 8 and it was part of the Fringe, Fringe roster.
Speaker B:But the rest of the year it was still venue 8, but on its own, and they were hosting all kinds of shows there.
Speaker B:And so I fictionalized that, and I don't have it.
Speaker B:It's not a Freemasons thing in my book.
Speaker B:I made up a different other society that built a thing, and I play around with some of the realities of it, but that was the inspiration, partly because during the time that I did that show there, I had heard also rumors that it was haunted.
Speaker B:I never saw any signs of it.
Speaker A:Tons of stories.
Speaker A:You never.
Speaker A:So you never.
Speaker A:So you actually performed there and you never saw any signs of Supernatural?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:Come on, there must have been some.
Speaker B:No, the closest that it came, I don't think I was actually at this rehearsal, but I heard about it.
Speaker B:From.
Speaker B:From my other cast member, you know, fellow cast members, that people were sitting around in the seats on the theater and saying, hey, I heard this place is haunted.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, no, they did all kinds of weird things back in the day.
Speaker B:And, you know, nobody knew.
Speaker B:It was just rumors.
Speaker B:This is before the Internet, so you can just look it up.
Speaker B:On the conspiracy website, people were saying, I heard this.
Speaker B:Oh, I heard that.
Speaker B:And one of the actors apparently just quite slipped out, and then he went through the door that would lead to the backstage area so he could creep up into the wings.
Speaker B:And while people were still talking about it, saying, I don't think it is.
Speaker B:Oh, I think it is.
Speaker B:There was a lull in the conversation, and he had put his hand into the sleeve of a shirt that was hanging off a chair on stage, so it was visible, but he was not.
Speaker B:And when the conversation died down, he started waving the arm of this empty shirt and going.
Speaker B:And apparently one of the actresses just shrieked because, like.
Speaker B:And then he said, no, no, it's just me.
Speaker B:And then people saying, ah.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:I used to go to that place all the time.
Speaker A:It was great.
Speaker A:Used to eat there.
Speaker A:He used to.
Speaker A:Used to see Fringe there.
Speaker A:Used to.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:God.
Speaker B:And what I loved was the second floor at that time that I remember it from.
Speaker B:Had the macaroni bar, which was like a buffet where they would make pasta any way you wanted.
Speaker B:I thought this was amazing.
Speaker B:I eat far too much carbohydrates there during the.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:It was more forgiving in those days, I'm sure for all of us.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Well, I was also, you know, I didn't have any money or a car, so I was walking or riding my bike everywhere.
Speaker B:Maybe I burned off enough of those carbs.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I didn't.
Speaker A:I don't think I. I didn't get my driver's license till I was, like, 25.
Speaker A:I used to just.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker A:I was an artist, so I would bike to school or bike to university and then bike to my job and then bike to my gig.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:You know, as a drummer, you can't carry your drum set on your.
Speaker A:On your bike.
Speaker B:No, but a little limited there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It caused some problems, but.
Speaker A:But, yeah, but I mean, that was.
Speaker A:That was like the whole bohemian lifestyle he's kind of got going on is.
Speaker A:It's kind of an attractive thing.
Speaker A:It's funny because I just.
Speaker A:Sometimes I think there's a confluence of events, and it's really weird because I knew you were coming on.
Speaker A:I was Reading the book, I'm quite enjoying.
Speaker A:I'm probably going to finish it over the next couple of days.
Speaker A:But then I started some friends of mine who run a podcast.
Speaker A:They were doing a podcast on In Excess and Michael Hutchins and whatever.
Speaker A:And I don't know tons about the band.
Speaker A:I just remember when the Devil Inside tour came through Winnipeg and everybody was going crazy.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:That was the first concert I ever went to, actually.
Speaker A:Are you serious?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:See, Confluence of events.
Speaker A:Here we go.
Speaker A:But I didn't realize.
Speaker A:So I get to learn a bit about his, about his past.
Speaker A:And he was a total bohemian guy.
Speaker A:He was a guy that is from Australia, but he spent a lot of time, I think it was in Hong Kong or Japan, I can't remember.
Speaker A:He lived there and he also lived in England and he also lived in Los Angeles because his mom was a makeup artist for movies and stuff.
Speaker A:So he was traveling quite a bit.
Speaker A:So he had this.
Speaker A:He wouldn't really set roots very well.
Speaker A:So I think when he came out on the scene, everyone was enamored with Michael Hutchins because he was like, he was so cultured and so different and whatever.
Speaker A:And I'm seeing this sort of like the main character here, he's doing the same thing.
Speaker A:He's, he's.
Speaker A:I'm going to do my dream and he's, he's doing all these side things and the whole bohemian thing is just kind of.
Speaker A:I don't know, it's just weird how I'm.
Speaker A:Now I'm also seeing the characters, a little bit of Michael Hutchins and I don't know, I think that's interesting.
Speaker B:You can see you can put a lot of things into it.
Speaker B:Like one of the things that I wanted to include in the book and it comes up.
Speaker B:I don't know if it's come at the point that you've read, but he's, he's living in this theater to save money.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's not a great decision because of course the place is haunted.
Speaker B:But it's also a crummy way to live.
Speaker B:Like he's got a full out cot in his third floor office and like that's no home.
Speaker B:And at one point a couple of the characters start going like, you okay, Robert?
Speaker B:And one of them actually calls them on and says, are you nuts living like this?
Speaker B:And as much as we, you know, we can look back on our earlier days and go, yeah, yeah, we really toughed it out.
Speaker B:We did some hard things.
Speaker B:I think it's important not to romanticize that too much, because what I don't get into in the book, but I think we all can agree, is that, like, artists probably aren't paid enough to excel and survive.
Speaker B:And that's why so many artists kind of just go like, yeah, I can't make a living this way.
Speaker B:And that's awful.
Speaker B:We're missing out on so much wonderful music, poetry, writing, plays, movies.
Speaker B:Because it's expensive to make art.
Speaker B:And it's expensive.
Speaker B:I think, like you were alluding to, when you're doing music and your main mode of transportation is the bicycle, like, you actually don't.
Speaker B:You can't get all the opportunities you might like because it's expensive to haul your stuff around.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think.
Speaker B:I think musicians and filmmakers probably have it worse because as a writer, an actor, your toolkit is pretty poor.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I feel that, you know, actors and writers probably have that a little bit easier in terms of overhead costs and getting to places, but it's not a whole lot easier on the bank book, if you know what I mean.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:I mean, yeah.
Speaker A:Eventually I went and got a 9 to 5, you know, but I mean, I still, you know, I still do my creative stuff.
Speaker A:Like, it's still happening.
Speaker A:And what's really cool about doing this show, the reason I'm doing the show is because when I had kids, it was really hard to be creative and come home at 3, 4 in the morning and then wake up at 6 with the kids and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker A:The balance.
Speaker A:I started failing at the balancing act.
Speaker A:So I gave up the music for a bit and I started the podcast just to keep a foot in the arts somehow.
Speaker A:Maybe I can talk to people that are doing it.
Speaker A:Maybe I can't do it myself right now, but at least I can, you know, still feel.
Speaker A:Still feel connected.
Speaker A:And now that the kids are older, you know, I'm going back and pursuing my stuff.
Speaker A:I'm still doing music, and it's just still doing this kind of stuff.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Well, to that point, there was a really good workshop I went to some years ago by Anita Dare, and she was talking to writers of all levels of experience.
Speaker B:And it was about, you know, how do you progress as a writer?
Speaker B:How do you find opportunities and that.
Speaker B:That sort of thing.
Speaker B:And one of the things she said was that when her children were young, she would try to get just 10 minutes, 10 minutes in a day where she could kind of shoo them out of the office when they're just little and say, like, I just got to work on this, just, you know, tap, tap, tap on the typewriter or the laptop, get a few words in in 10 minutes.
Speaker B:It keeps your brain engaged in your creative process.
Speaker B:So when you're talking about doing the podcast or doing, like, little bits of what you used to do, hours of your brain is still doing it.
Speaker B:So the next day you come back to it, and you still probably had some subconscious things going on.
Speaker B:And when she said that, I felt a lot better about my inability to make a lot of time for writing, because it was the same thing.
Speaker B:You know, when you've got young kids or any kids, like, of any age, your family demands a lot of your time as.
Speaker B:As they should.
Speaker B:You only get one shot at that.
Speaker A:Period of their lives.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:But it's also healthy for kids growing up to see that parents have got creative outlets that they've got to go.
Speaker B:Like, this is just for me for this short time.
Speaker B:So it is good.
Speaker B:It is good to try and find that time or that connection so that many years go on.
Speaker B:Like, you're saying, maybe you have more time afterwards to say, okay, now I can take an hour and write something, music, whatever it may be.
Speaker A:Actually, thanks for saying that.
Speaker A:Actually, it got me thinking, because I've always kept, like, just a little bit.
Speaker A:And my kids are 10 and 12 now, and they're both incredibly creative.
Speaker A:Like, so what we have.
Speaker A:My wife tends to work, like, evening.
Speaker A:Like, evenings.
Speaker A:So I'll have the kid.
Speaker A:It'll just be me and me and my girls.
Speaker A:And then usually Wednesday nights is that podcast Tuesday.
Speaker A:So on Wednesday nights, we all sit around the kitchen table and we all do something creative.
Speaker A:So it could be individually, but we're all doing it together at the table.
Speaker A:So it's like, Abby likes to.
Speaker A:She's an artist.
Speaker B:She likes to paint.
Speaker A:She's very good.
Speaker A:And Ellie's a story writer, so she's writing her.
Speaker A:And we're all at the table together.
Speaker A:We're still doing that creative time.
Speaker A:And maybe it's not.
Speaker A:I'm not focused, and I get the blinders on and.
Speaker A:And focusing really hard.
Speaker A:But that creative energy in the table around the three of us is fantastic.
Speaker A:So when my wife is done work and, you know, she comes up to the table, everyone's in a good mood, because I don't care what anybody says.
Speaker A:I. I find when you're creative, it just gives you this crazy inner peace, fulfillment that.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:Like, I don't.
Speaker A:I. I have a heart, like, and I want to get your opinion on this.
Speaker A:This is Actually this was on our.
Speaker B:Topic board, a topic to talk about.
Speaker A:But do you know people that don't do anything creative at all?
Speaker A:And are you, do you think they're happy?
Speaker B:Well, that's a tough question because I don't know everything about everyone's lives that I know.
Speaker B:But I think, I think just to step back and maybe I don't want to reframe your question too much, but I think there are creative things that we don't always think of as being creative, but like cooking, gardening, even.
Speaker A:Oh, that's creative.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Budgeting, Budgeting, accounting, rearranging your house.
Speaker B:Any.
Speaker B:Those things are very creative.
Speaker B:And so is just for a walk.
Speaker B:Like if you go for a walk, your mind is engaged in your surroundings in a different way than it is if you're driving and sometimes your mind can wander when you walk and you're just like they used to say, wool gathering.
Speaker B:You're just kind of letting your mind wander.
Speaker B:That's can be very creative.
Speaker B:So I think there's a danger more now than there ever seemed to used to be when I was growing up that you're just inundated with input from the universe all the time.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Like doom scrolling or overwhelmed from media or never having a moment to get away from whatever it is you're watching or listening to.
Speaker B:And when you talked about that inner peace from sitting down doing creative stuff, I think that comes from expression.
Speaker B:And some people like to talk to others and that's their expression.
Speaker B:People like to write or paint, but the act of expressing whatever is inside you is very cathartic.
Speaker B:Like I think that was part of the whole point from ancient Greek drama, is that you get those, you get that, that feeling out and it's good for you.
Speaker B:So doing something creative, even if it's not, you know, if somebody does something and they're deeply involved in it and it involves them thinking of new ways to do things.
Speaker B:They might say, oh, that's not artsy or anything.
Speaker B:It's like maybe not, but it's still creative, you know, like for example, tuning a car, fixing a car, fixing machines.
Speaker B:That's extremely creative.
Speaker A:Well for.
Speaker A:Of course it is, yeah.
Speaker B:But we might think it's surely engineering or it's surely mechanical.
Speaker B:It's not.
Speaker B:It involves a lot of creative thinking.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:My wife's a hairstylist, so like she's creating art every day.
Speaker A:You know, honestly she is.
Speaker A:And, and, but it's interesting because she does that.
Speaker A:She's also a painter and you can see how she does Painting and it's colors and all these sorts of things.
Speaker A:And how she creates a masterpiece on someone's head and on a page, and it's actually not that far removed from each other.
Speaker A:I think there's a lot of creative things.
Speaker A:Like, you're saying, like a mechanic that is creative.
Speaker A:Absolutely, it is.
Speaker A:I like the thing about conversation because that kind of gets into the acting thing, because I know some people say, well, I'm acting.
Speaker A:It's someone else's words.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But you're taking those words and you're doing something with it.
Speaker A:Like, my mom's a singer, and she was never singing any songs that she wrote, but she was reinterpreting those songs in her style.
Speaker A:So if you're acting, it's the same exact thing.
Speaker B:One of the things that I love doing.
Speaker B:You're right.
Speaker B:I mean, every play done by different actors and different director comes out a bit different.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:You have a different.
Speaker B:Different energy.
Speaker B:And the same thing with singing.
Speaker B:Like, you know, I love a lot of different kinds of music.
Speaker B:And sometimes, if I like.
Speaker B:For classical music is a great example of what you were just saying, because there are some performances of some pieces by, like, whatever Beethoven or Bach.
Speaker B:And I grew up listening to a particular version.
Speaker B:And what I love about places like the Manitoba Chamber Orchestra, when they have their vinyl vault, you go down there, into that room which is like stacks of records, and the volunteers know where everything is, and they say, I'm looking for.
Speaker B: I think it was a concert from: Speaker B:And so they found this old concert for me on vinyl that I had mangled my tape version of, and I put it on the stereo, and it's like, yeah, the way he plays it is just how I think of it.
Speaker B:So I think the player brings a lot to it.
Speaker A:Oh, God, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like my brother, like, in our music, I write the music and my brother plays it.
Speaker A:But if I performed, if I played the guitar or the piano, it wouldn't sound anything like the way he's doing it, because he's got his own touch.
Speaker A:The way he touches the strings, the way he bends the notes, that's completely him.
Speaker A:And when my brother plays, you know, it's him.
Speaker A:I could hear the same song played by 10 people.
Speaker A:And I could always point my brother out just because he has that his own artistic flair, his own signature to what he does.
Speaker A:It's the same thing with an actor, too.
Speaker A:And the great actors, sometimes you don't know what that flare is because they're chameleon like, and they can just.
Speaker B:I saw a great example of this, actually, in third year theater.
Speaker B:And I apologize if this is too precious or too much of a rabbit hole, but I don't care.
Speaker A:This is what we do in the show, so go with it for sure.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:If people are familiar with the play, Rosencrass and Guildenstern are dead.
Speaker B:It's about two minor characters from Hamlet.
Speaker B:And the point is, we know by the end of Hamlet that they were executed.
Speaker B:The whole play is an absurdist play of what they were doing behind the scenes of Hamlet.
Speaker B:And part of the point of the.
Speaker B:Not to put words in the playwright's mouth, but part of what's going on in the play is that it doesn't really matter which one is which.
Speaker B:They don't really have distinct personalities, even though they argue, even though they debate.
Speaker B:And so that sort of weird absurdity of not being a distinct person when you're constantly arguing with your.
Speaker B:Your companion is part of the humor.
Speaker B:And in my acting class, there were two women who did that play for scene work.
Speaker B:They did that.
Speaker B:A section of it, and it was great.
Speaker B:They were wonderful.
Speaker B:It was so funny.
Speaker B:Beat, beat, beat.
Speaker B:Everything was snappy.
Speaker B:But our professor pointed this out.
Speaker B:He said, you know, this is part of what the play is doing.
Speaker B:It's saying it doesn't matter who's who.
Speaker B:And we can absolutely tell which of you is which because you're so distinct in your mannerisms.
Speaker B:So what he asked them to do was, you, I want it to do the way she would do it, and you do it the way she would do it.
Speaker B:And the tension remained.
Speaker B:And what was hilarious was that they knew each other so well that they started spoofing each other's mannerisms.
Speaker B:And the closer they got to parodying each other, the harder it was to tell who was who.
Speaker B:And it was so funny.
Speaker B:And all of the class, we were just dying laughing.
Speaker B:I've rarely laughed so hard because not only did the scene work because of that, but seeing them send each other up was just lovely.
Speaker B:I had a chance to catch up with both a couple of weeks ago at a reading that I did of venue 13.
Speaker B:And I said, do you remember when you guys did Rose and Fence and Gilbert and they're going, oh, God.
Speaker B:And I said, no.
Speaker B:It was seriously one of the best pieces that theater that I.
Speaker A:You still remember it to this day.
Speaker A:It was memorable, though.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:That's a.
Speaker A:What a great idea.
Speaker A:What a good teacher to to recommend.
Speaker A:No, this is what you got to do.
Speaker A:Because yeah, it would make them immutable.
Speaker A:Like you wouldn't.
Speaker A:You could.
Speaker A:Oh, that's genius.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker A:Oh, I miss acting.
Speaker A:You're making me miss acting a little bit.
Speaker B:I sometimes do too.
Speaker B:Like, I haven't gone on stage for a long time.
Speaker B:In fact, at the book launch, one of my, A friend of mine who had.
Speaker B:We'd been in a show or two together, we were in, we were in a fringe play.
Speaker B:We did Henry IV Part one, and he was Prince Hal and I played Hotspur.
Speaker B:So we were nemeses, we were good friends.
Speaker B:And he asked at the launch for venue 13, you know, what would it take to get you up on stage?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I kind of made a joke.
Speaker B:I said, oh, a million dollars.
Speaker B:Because, you know, like, for me it's sort of a chapter that's, that's closed.
Speaker B:But I do miss it.
Speaker B:I miss that feeling.
Speaker B:And as anybody at the launch or any place I've done reads, can see, it's like, put me in front of a microphone with my book or something.
Speaker B:I can read and I'm a total ham.
Speaker B:I want to put on the reading.
Speaker B:You're still performing.
Speaker B:You're still performing, right?
Speaker B:I still love that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't know if I would go back.
Speaker A:It's one of those things.
Speaker A:Like I did it, it was fun, but I still get the itch.
Speaker A:But I think, and maybe you're similar to me in that way.
Speaker A:I actually like kind of controlling the words behind everything.
Speaker A:You know, like having a bit more control.
Speaker A:Like it's fun to do someone else's lines.
Speaker A:But every time when I've acted before, I would always kind of change my lines a little bit in subtle little ways.
Speaker A:And sometimes the writer wasn't always on set so the director didn't really know any better.
Speaker A:And then later when you're doing ADR and something and they're like, we're trying to match what you said, but like, this isn't in the script at all.
Speaker A:Like, what, what were you doing?
Speaker A:But I, I don't know.
Speaker A:Like I, I doing the words is, is fun for me.
Speaker A:Like, I really like, I really like that I started.
Speaker A:Now the kids are a little more self sufficient at this age and we have our creative time on Wednesdays.
Speaker A:I'm going back to writing some more because I used to write all the time and you know, obsessively I was writing.
Speaker A:But again, everything takes a backseat.
Speaker A:You got to look after your priorities and that sort of thing.
Speaker A:But reading this.
Speaker A:David, I don't know.
Speaker A:Reading this really got me excited to write again.
Speaker A:I like the style.
Speaker A:There's complexity in there, but it's still a simple read.
Speaker A:But because I've written for so long and I've read a million things, I like.
Speaker A:I'm like, okay, I like.
Speaker A:It's a simple.
Speaker A:You can just jump in and just read and just enjoy it.
Speaker A:But if you delve a little bit, like there's the choices of words or how a scene is going to play out, like there's some really kind of smarter things in there that I'm liking, enjoying as a writer going, oh, I like what you did there.
Speaker A:Like, that was kind of a cool twist and stuff.
Speaker A:Like, it's not a simple.
Speaker A:It's not a simple book, but you can read it simply, if that makes sense.
Speaker B:I Very glad to hear that because one, I was hoping we would get there when we went through revisions.
Speaker B:And also I think that's important.
Speaker B:I think, I think a story, whatever form it's in, should be enjoyable so you can get into it and then have things that you may think about later.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker B:About stories that I love.
Speaker B:Where I go, like, that was a great movie, play, whatever.
Speaker B:And then you.
Speaker B:And then you come back to it, even maybe later in life and you reread it or re watching, like, oh, I didn't see that.
Speaker B:But it's there.
Speaker B:You know, I love that.
Speaker B:I love the sort of depth that some things can have.
Speaker A:But to talk about it later, like to actually.
Speaker A:So I read a scene and then what I would.
Speaker A:I like reading at night before bed.
Speaker A:It's my.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like I have.
Speaker A:I have a. I work really early shift.
Speaker A:So I go to bed before everyone else in the house, including the kids.
Speaker A:But I.
Speaker A:But I have this.
Speaker A:And my wife understands.
Speaker A:Like, I have to have this kind of half an hour at least before bed, 45 minutes, where it's kind of my meditation.
Speaker A:So I read.
Speaker A:But when I'm reading your stuff, I can only read for half an hour.
Speaker A:And then I have to take 15 minutes to process to go, okay, do there.
Speaker A:So I'm thinking and I'm reflecting and I'm like, okay, so he did that there.
Speaker A:And then he's.
Speaker A:He's sleeping in the theater.
Speaker A:And then who is this?
Speaker A:Who's this?
Speaker A:This Ariana.
Speaker A:And so I just.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I like that when you read something simple sometimes if it's truly simple, maybe you won't do that.
Speaker A:But there was enough.
Speaker A:It was simple enough to read that I Could read it quickly, but enough that I wanted to reflect after.
Speaker A:It's like when you watch my wife, like I said, my wife's a creative too.
Speaker A:So when we go see a movie or we read books together, we do book club with each other, we'll read.
Speaker A:But we always talk about whatever we watch whatever, like doesn't matter what it is and talk about it.
Speaker A:And I think a good art that's like, that's good art, that it creates conversation afterwards.
Speaker B:I agree.
Speaker B:And I love that about, I love that about the Fringe, for example, where people say, what did you see?
Speaker B:What's good?
Speaker B:What do you see?
Speaker B:What did you like?
Speaker B:And you might have people who come out of a show going, that was amazing.
Speaker B:Or others that go like, didn't connect with it.
Speaker B:And then if they talk about it, then you can sort of see like, oh, I see, I didn't get that.
Speaker B:Or oh, yeah, I see what you're saying, but I don't like that.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:It engages a different part of your brain than simply enjoying it.
Speaker B:So that reflection you're talking about, we have 15 minutes.
Speaker B:You're kind of being your own beer tent there at the Fringe where you're like, what about this?
Speaker B:What about that?
Speaker B:But I do love that about sharing books and sharing stories.
Speaker B:It's something that's different.
Speaker B:Maybe in our age of streaming where everybody can binge whatever they want and you don't have the same, you know, 13 channels that everybody has access to.
Speaker B:So you all watch the same thing Friday night and talk about it at school the next day.
Speaker A:Well, but I kind miss that about, about nowadays because like the binge culture or like you're saying like the doom scrolling.
Speaker A:I don't get.
Speaker A:I mean, I will doom scroll occasionally, but I don't do it that often because it's not for me.
Speaker A:It's not satisfying.
Speaker A:Like I want to.
Speaker A:I want to watch something and think.
Speaker B:I think the doom scrolling.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's what doom scrolling prevents you from.
Speaker B:I've been sucked into it myself.
Speaker B:It's meant to capture your attention and to prevent reflection in my.
Speaker B:Like, I'm not saying it's a nefarious conspiracy, but the nature of the experience is that you don't have time to reflect, which is why you have to.
Speaker A:Go on to the next thing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Or you argue with the person based on a basic, very surface level interpretation.
Speaker B:That's not really about communication.
Speaker B:If you experience something in the theater, movie theater or stage, whatever, and you come out of it having that emotional experience and Then you talk about it.
Speaker B:That's different than if somebody shares a single line and you're like, I disagree with what that means, but there's zero context.
Speaker A:That's what I, that's what I don't like.
Speaker A:Nothing has context anymore.
Speaker A:I really like when my brother and I will talk about, like sometimes we'll analyze music on, on the show.
Speaker A:Like there's new song that I just really heard that I just heard.
Speaker A:And I really want him to hear it because I want to, I want to know what he's going to think about it so we can actually talk about it.
Speaker A:Like that's what art is for.
Speaker A:Like this, I don't know, this.
Speaker B:It's communal.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's communal.
Speaker B:One thing that I started trying to do more and it's not like an obligation, but I didn't like how I was getting up in the morning and obviously I would check my email and check the weather because I want to know what my bike ride is going to be like to work.
Speaker A:Sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:But then I'd get into doom scrolling and I'd find like, you know, 20 minutes goes by.
Speaker B:It's like, ugh, I don't feel great.
Speaker B:I'm upset about something.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I tried to switch and Instead read for 10 minutes, whatever I'm reading.
Speaker B:And I used to doing it like you, where I'm reading just before bed.
Speaker B:And I do do that still.
Speaker B:But what I found is that if I'm taking like 10, 15 minutes to read something just for fun in the morning, I feel better.
Speaker B:And I think that kind of sets my day in a way that just reading endless news or whatever because I'm going to read the news in a bit anyway.
Speaker B:But reading something just for fun engages my mind in a different way and I feel better a little bit.
Speaker B:Like what you said about the creative time around the table, like you engaged your mind a different way and then, you know, you emerge from that and your mind is maybe refreshed.
Speaker A:We also try to do that when we watch.
Speaker A:Like we'll take the kids.
Speaker A:We're very selective.
Speaker A:Like, okay, this movie the four of us are going to go see, but then we always book time after the movie to, I don't know, go to A and W or something.
Speaker A:But, but it's.
Speaker A:But the purpose is not to eat, the purpose is to talk about the experience.
Speaker A:We just had to create a bit more permanence to, hey, we all went to the movie, we all saw this to talk about it.
Speaker A:So we'll remember this five years from now or ten years from now.
Speaker A:And we've always done it.
Speaker A:And I don't know if it was intentional.
Speaker A:That's because I don't know my wife and I, if we're intentionally doing it.
Speaker A:But we've noticed, like, the, you know, like I said, the kids are 10 and 12, but they'll say, do you remember that time that we went to the theater and we saw Blah, blah, blah, and then we went hereafter?
Speaker A:And then they still remember the whole thing.
Speaker A:And it's like, oh, you know, we did something right.
Speaker A:Like, we're creating a permanence.
Speaker A:And I think really great art has that permanence to it.
Speaker A:Like, if you listen to.
Speaker A:I don't know, I'll pick a random.
Speaker A:The first time you heard the Weaker Than.
Speaker A:Because we brought them up earlier.
Speaker A:The first time you heard the Weaker Thens, I bet you you have a memory associated with, when you listen to it, how you felt, what was happening around you at that time.
Speaker A:Whether it was maybe you were at a bookstore and you heard it or a venue or you heard it on, um, FM or something or whatever.
Speaker A:Like, there's a whole story around listening to that song.
Speaker A:I'm sure there is.
Speaker B:There's some albums that I prefer to listen during a certain months of the year, and it's usually because that's the first month that I ever heard that.
Speaker B:That album.
Speaker B:And I listened to it a lot.
Speaker B:And for me, like, I didn't realize that that was an odd thing until, you know, my wife's saying, why are you always playing Def Leppard at Christmas?
Speaker B:I was like, oh, well, because I got Hysteria in December that year, and.
Speaker A:I played it a lot.
Speaker A:And it always.
Speaker B:I always want to listen to it in December.
Speaker B:It's not Christmas music, but it's December music for me.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So I have this.
Speaker A:I have the same thing.
Speaker A:My.
Speaker A:I don't know if I want to call it guilty pleasure.
Speaker A:People make fun of me all the time.
Speaker A:It's like, you're such.
Speaker A:You know, you're such a serious musician.
Speaker A:You're writing this serious stuff and you like Kiss.
Speaker A:I'm like, well, oh, come on.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker B:Well, like what you said about simplicity and complexity.
Speaker B:I'm not going to read too much into Kiss, because I'm a big Kiss fan, too.
Speaker B:And, you know, let's not get into the lyrics.
Speaker B:You can.
Speaker A:Yeah, even that.
Speaker B:Even as a teenager, I was listening to some of these songs.
Speaker B:Like, is he really saying that about this teenager?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:However, musically, it's very easy to get lost into like, oh, yeah, he's such a facile player of this.
Speaker B:And then you listen, it's like, yeah, but how hard was it to write something that simple that you can't stop thinking about that.
Speaker A:Yeah, that it's.
Speaker A:That it stays replaying in your head all the time for me.
Speaker A:So I was going to say, with Kiss, it's October, because they used to do.
Speaker A:I don't know when they started this, but they.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The deal with Polygraph Polygram, I think, is who they were with.
Speaker A:They always had to release a new record every October, which was my birth, which was my birthday month.
Speaker A:So every, you know, every birthday month, I get a Kiss record or, you know, every other year or whatever, but it was always in October.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And that was like.
Speaker A:Because it was the new release cycle, it was not intentional by Kiss, but it was what.
Speaker A:The cycle of the.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The release the record, do the tour, get the tour done, go back in the studio, record and release the next record.
Speaker A:So there was a whole cycle that a lot of followed.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So Kiss was notorious for that, though.
Speaker B:Like, I. I remember in high school, I wrote a.
Speaker B:A review of Hot in the Shade, which I think probably came out in October or September.
Speaker B:It was that fall.
Speaker A:No, it did.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was that fall.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:And the headline I wrote for it was the annual Kiss album.
Speaker B:Because it seemed to me, I started noticing, hey, they come up with something every year.
Speaker B:It's either like a new album or greatest hits or something.
Speaker B:But, yeah, yeah, they understood marketing, that's for sure.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, they.
Speaker A:They did.
Speaker A:I did see them on that tour, by the way.
Speaker B:Oh, get out.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:I wish I had.
Speaker B:Actually, I was.
Speaker A:I was living in Montreal at the time.
Speaker A:That was possibly one of my creative peaks.
Speaker A:Montreal is.
Speaker A:If you.
Speaker A:If you want to be creative in Montreal, it's.
Speaker A:It's hard not to be creative in Montreal.
Speaker A:It's just such a. Wow.
Speaker A:But, yeah, I saw them.
Speaker A:I was living there at the time, and Kiss came through and I saw them there and it was.
Speaker A:It was something else.
Speaker A:It was awesome.
Speaker B:That's very cool.
Speaker B:I have not been to Montreal.
Speaker B:It's one of the great world cities I want to go to.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, it's worth it.
Speaker A:It's old European in a lot of ways.
Speaker A:And the people are probably the most passionate in all of our country, that's for sure.
Speaker A:They're passionate about something.
Speaker A:They get angry or they get.
Speaker A:They fall in love with something, like just crazy amount, and then they move on to the next thing.
Speaker A:It's a Very interesting place.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's for sure.
Speaker A:Kind of going through your.
Speaker A:Some of the other writing you've done here.
Speaker A:So I didn't get a chance to delve into this stuff, but there's a lot of.
Speaker A:It's Fenrir, you morons.
Speaker A:That looks.
Speaker A:I want to go check that out.
Speaker B:That one is actually available on Polar Borealis magazine for free.
Speaker A:You can read it for free.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:I'm going to be checking that out.
Speaker A:So you said there was an interest in the old.
Speaker A:Was it the trolls or whatever, like the Icelandic trolls and all those sorts of stories?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:With some of the other writing, was it kind of based on kind of those fantastical elements or.
Speaker B:Like, I've done.
Speaker B:Done a lot of short stories and I usually, if not always write something with a speculative element or there's a science fiction or fantasy element to the short stories.
Speaker B:And so I draw a lot from whatever interests me.
Speaker B:Like people say, write what you know, but I.
Speaker B:The caveat, which is probably unspoken, is write what you care about.
Speaker B:And a lot of what I care about has to do with those things.
Speaker B:It's very much like I said, you know, I had this idea that going there would affect the rest of my life and it absolutely affected my creative life.
Speaker B:Because it's one thing to kind of be interested in that stuff and it's another to sort of be swimming in it alongside people who've grown up with it and are a little bit blase about these things.
Speaker B:And then they're at the point where you satirize it or make parodies of it and you're like, oh, that's not.
Speaker B:It's not treating it with the respect it deserves.
Speaker B:But if it's their own culture, then of course they can take the piss out of it sometimes.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker B:When I'm writing short stories, I'm usually grabbing on to some little element of a.
Speaker B:Something about a ghost or a myth or a monster or something and trying to weave it into a modern context or sometimes a historical context.
Speaker B:And I really enjoy doing that.
Speaker B:So some.
Speaker B:Sometimes I'll write a troll story or sometimes I'll write a sort of a Norse myth inspired story.
Speaker B:But I don't.
Speaker B:I'm not super interested in a straight up retelling.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And I have.
Speaker B:I have some stories that are on submission that I hope will get picked up because I had a lot of fun writing, you know, about mythological things in a.
Speaker B:Either a modern context or as I say, historical that I would love to see published because one day I'D love to put together a collection of short stories and have that come out.
Speaker A:Have you.
Speaker A:Have you met Chadwick Ginther at all?
Speaker B:In fact, I have.
Speaker B:The way I met Chadwick was that he asked if I would copy edit his books that came out through Ravenstone, because I had a background in, you know, sort of Norse things and.
Speaker B:Yeah, Icelandic.
Speaker B:Icelandic matters.
Speaker B:Then I was more than happy to do it.
Speaker B:So I copy edited and proofread all of those books that he did with Ravenstone.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker A:That's cool.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:Small world.
Speaker B:Well, yeah, the Icelandic world starts collapsing in on itself at a certain point.
Speaker B:I mean, I joke about it, but, like, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm two degrees of separation from Bill Clinton because I met the president of Iceland and I went to high school or went to university with his daughter.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Former.
Speaker B:Former president.
Speaker B:No longer.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But at the time.
Speaker B:So it does get to be very.
Speaker B:Like, everybody knows each other by 2 degrees or something.
Speaker A:And I think.
Speaker A:I think in Winnipeg, too, I think there's like, one connection to everyone also.
Speaker B:Yes, also true.
Speaker B:That's another thing about Iceland and Winnipeg that's very similar, and maybe it's with other island cultures, is that wherever you go in Canada, if you meet someone from Winnipeg, like, you can have a conversation, and at some point you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, I went to high school with the person you're talking about.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:That's so true.
Speaker B:It's ridiculous.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:I think Winnipeggers are the Australians of Canada, if that isn't stretching them too much, because we go all over the country and kind of settle different places and then still maintain these connections to, you know, this weird place, Prairie Town, there's probably similar.
Speaker A:My wife is Portuguese, and her family's Portuguese, obviously.
Speaker A:So there's Portuguese everywhere.
Speaker A:And it's kind of cool because they always know, hey, they see the person over there, they're Portuguese.
Speaker A:They are.
Speaker A:They already know.
Speaker A:They already recognize, and they can just go have a conversation with them.
Speaker A:It's kind of cool.
Speaker B:Like, one of my favorite random encounters was I was in Toronto with my wife.
Speaker B:We weren't married yet, but we were going to a wedding, and we were staying in my cousin's place, and he wasn't there.
Speaker B:So this is already complicated, and we should have been completely anonymous.
Speaker B:And we were walking to go catch a train somewhere so we could get to the wedding.
Speaker B:And this man walks out of the subway station, and I sort of recognized the body language.
Speaker B:And he goes, david Joan Fuller.
Speaker B:And he was actually this huge Icelandic director.
Speaker B:That I'd met while I lived there.
Speaker B:And Bronwen, my wife, was like, how do you know this guy's like, oh, yeah, we knew each other in Iceland and we just randomly meet in Toronto.
Speaker B:But it was like, oh, yeah, haven't seen you for a couple years.
Speaker B:How's it going?
Speaker B:I'm just blah, blah, blah.
Speaker B:And the thing was, too, aside from knowing him in Iceland, he also lived in Winnipeg.
Speaker B:So there was this double.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker A:We were talking earlier.
Speaker A:You said you'd listen to our episode with Daryl Dwarf.
Speaker A:And you had a connection with Daryl Dwarf, too?
Speaker B:Well, you know, sort of, yes.
Speaker B:I mean, because he talked about the concert that he played here with Helix and Kick Ax and how they did really well.
Speaker B:I agree.
Speaker B:I was at that concert and I was blown away by the Killer Dwarfs.
Speaker B:And so I started listening to all the music and I started realizing, like, hey, it's hard to get some of this stuff on cd.
Speaker B:Why don't they have a box set?
Speaker B:They need a box set.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B: y played again in Winnipeg in: Speaker B: But I saw them in: Speaker B:These guys are good.
Speaker B:I really want to.
Speaker A: Wait, you saw them in: Speaker A: Wait,: Speaker A:2020.
Speaker B:I'm pretty sure.
Speaker B:Pretty sure it was.
Speaker B:Because it was sort of post pandemic in the Bulldog.
Speaker A:At the Bulldog.
Speaker B:I'm gonna retract a bit.
Speaker B: They played twice in: Speaker B:Before the pandemic.
Speaker A:Before the Pandemic, Yeah, because he talked to us about that.
Speaker A: But yeah, in: Speaker A:I think it was around because I was at the Bulldog too.
Speaker B:So we're there.
Speaker B:That's funny.
Speaker B:So the story about to tell is about that.
Speaker B:What I'd gotten into collecting all their stuff, it was piecemeal.
Speaker B:And I was like, you know what I'm gonna do?
Speaker B:I'm gonna make a box set.
Speaker B:And I think I shared the link to you of this little Killer Dwarfs box, the crate that you see in their old music videos.
Speaker A:Oh, really?
Speaker A:Oh, nice.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:If you click the link that I'd sent you earlier, if you're interested.
Speaker B:I recreated it.
Speaker B:So I thought if they're gonna have a box set, it would look like the crate from their videos where Rustwarf comes out.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So I. I built this thing out of wood and bought all the CDs, filled it up, and I took it to that concert.
Speaker B:And then after they were done, I said, can you guys please sign my box set?
Speaker B:And they were like, where did you get this?
Speaker B:And I said, well, I made it myself.
Speaker B:And the guitar players, like, we should be making these.
Speaker B:And I said, yeah, you should.
Speaker B:So I got all of them to sign it and it was a blast to get to talk to them.
Speaker A:They're really nice.
Speaker B:Such lovely people.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, we actually he.
Speaker A:Well, when they were coming to Winnipeg, he messaged us, hey, I'm coming to Winnipeg.
Speaker A:Like I said, so we're gonna see you at the show.
Speaker A:So we, we get to hang out with Russ a bit more.
Speaker A:And like, just a sweetheart of a guy.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker B:Yeah, they're just such lovely people.
Speaker B:At least from what I could, you know, for them to take the time when.
Speaker B:When I was just Joe Schmo with a thing.
Speaker B:Can you sign this for me?
Speaker B:I thought that was quite nice.
Speaker A:They do that with all their fans.
Speaker A:It's, it's, it's.
Speaker A:Anyone talks about killer dwarfs, that's generally what it is.
Speaker A:I'm looking at your picture now with the killer dwarf inside.
Speaker A:So cool.
Speaker A:Oh, they're so good.
Speaker A:So I'm gonna try to see if I can get him back on because he just released his third book, which I just picked up, which it's a nice easy read, I think.
Speaker A:It's only they're not big, so they're quick reads.
Speaker A:You can probably read them in a day or whatever.
Speaker A:But it's really good.
Speaker A:He's actually not a bad writer.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:You wouldn't expect it.
Speaker A:But yeah, he's on his third book and he's got another one coming, so, you know, good on him.
Speaker A:So self published, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, I've been meaning to pick those up.
Speaker B:I should have bought them at that concert because they had, I think, everything available and I was, I was so set on getting them to sign my thing and I bought whatever the latest CD that I didn't have was, but I should have bought the books too.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, they're definitely available from his website, so.
Speaker A:Okay, yeah, I'll send you the link after.
Speaker A:But yeah, no, he's a good guy.
Speaker A:And even though, like, even though, like we're not friends or anything, if I send him a message, he always replies and thanks, brother.
Speaker A:You know?
Speaker A:Yeah, he reminds me.
Speaker A:I don't know why, but he kind of reminds me, like if someone from Newfoundland, just that super friendly vibe.
Speaker A:Cool, you know, just laid back and, I don't know, kind of cool guy.
Speaker A:Just going through your other stuff here.
Speaker A:So are you, are you going to the fringe?
Speaker A:I know you're not Performing at the Fringe this year.
Speaker A:But are you, you still regularly go every year?
Speaker A:I'm sure.
Speaker B:I, I do.
Speaker B:I, I, some years it's easier than others to kind of get out and see more shows.
Speaker B:I don't know why July ends up being a crazy month for me for one reason or another.
Speaker B:Like two years ago, I was actually doing.
Speaker B:There was substantive edit on venue 13, but I was also reviewing Fringe plays.
Speaker B:So I was trying to get my word, word count every day on the manuscript to meet a deadline.
Speaker B:And then I was also running out to the Fringe and seeing a show type, type, type, type, you know, send it off so it can be in the paper.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:On deadline.
Speaker B:So that was utterly bonkers.
Speaker B:And I don't know why I thought I could do all that.
Speaker B:But it, you know, it worked all right.
Speaker A:Just like the main character in your book.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Seriously over committing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So there's some lived experience there for sure.
Speaker B:And I do enjoy going to the Fridge.
Speaker B:It's got this weird vibe that other festivals in Manitoba don't.
Speaker B:And it's a great way to experience live theater.
Speaker B:I love seeing the free stuff at the Old Market Square, but it's also wonderful when you can see a traveling production or even a local production that is just great drama between two or three characters and it's concentrated into like an hour or less.
Speaker B:It's a very different way of experiencing a story than movies or episodic TV or even a book.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:We were supposed to go this weekend, but it's like going from a hot house to wait outside in line in a heat wave.
Speaker A:We're going to try going this weekend with the kids and try to.
Speaker A:There's a few interesting ones.
Speaker A:Well, that they want to see because a lot of the stuff.
Speaker A:I like seeing a lot of the edgy stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, where boundaries are being pushed.
Speaker A:But, I mean, I can't take my kids to the, to those ones new,.
Speaker B:Maybe when they're a bit older.
Speaker B:But yeah.
Speaker B:I got hooked on the Fringe when I was 17, like I probably would have earlier if I understood what it was about.
Speaker B:But it was actually my drama teacher in high school after I graduated, because I was going on to do a theater degree.
Speaker A:This was U of W, you said, Right.
Speaker B:I went to ufw.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I went to a high school at River East Collegiate in North Carolina, and our drama teacher there was.
Speaker B:Part of what you did in grade 12 theater was you had to go to a full season of the MTC Warehouse and then write about each thing.
Speaker B:So you were going to theater and seeing actual theater while you were doing stuff.
Speaker B:And at the end of the year, she said, you should come up to the Fringe because it's got everything.
Speaker B:And so I took her advice and was hooked.
Speaker B:It was just so much fun.
Speaker B:And so from that point, if I wasn't already signed up for a theater program, I would have then go like, no, this is what I want to do.
Speaker B:It's a blast.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker A:I. I have several friends that.
Speaker A:That are in plays this year, so I'm going to try to hit those if I can, as much as I can.
Speaker B:Sorry, I just got to receive.
Speaker A:Okay, never mind.
Speaker A:I just received a phone call.
Speaker A:I just want to make sure it wasn't an emergency.
Speaker A:No, it's good.
Speaker A:We're good.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, one of the things that you sometimes get asked if you do a degree in the arts or in theater, it's like, well, what made you decide not to do it anymore?
Speaker B:Because obviously I'm not an actor anymore.
Speaker B:And for me, part of it was the stability, the kind of stability that Robert in the novel is chasing but can't get.
Speaker B:And like, what we've discussed just now, you know, But I also lucked into something because after I came back from my time in Iceland, I applied for jobs, got a job in a restaurant, and then I got a job working for a drama publishing publisher in town.
Speaker B:And it was this great combination of, like, well, I like writing, I like editing, believe it or not, I like proofreading.
Speaker B:And this is exactly my milieu.
Speaker B:So how great is this?
Speaker B:And so I did that for a few years and I learned that as much as, you know, I joke about, well, theater was a little precarious.
Speaker B:So I went to a notoriously stable industry like publishing.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But I do love the publishing process.
Speaker B:And I got very involved in the Icelandic ethnic paper here in Manitoba that, you know, is all across North America, but it's based here.
Speaker B:And then, like now I work at the Free Press, and I do love working with words all day, and I do miss theater sometimes, but this, this sort of work also keeps my brain very engaged.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And like I was saying, you know, that 10 minutes a day on your own creative things, sometimes that's enough to keep going for when you have more time in your day to do creative work.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:I was trying to see if there was anything else here I wanted to bring up.
Speaker A:So you've got the book in all the stores, which is good.
Speaker A:It's available.
Speaker A:Oh, you even have it on Amazon as well.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:Flintstone has got.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker A:Yeah, the reach is pretty good.
Speaker A:Are you selling through your website at all?
Speaker A:I didn't notice.
Speaker B:I am not.
Speaker B:I'm not set up to do that, but partly.
Speaker B:Also, like, I'm a big believer in local booksellers and, you know, frankly, big booksellers, like chapters in Amazon.
Speaker B:I'd love for them to sell the book.
Speaker B:But I really do like directing people because, you know, I've got cousins and friends and relatives all over Canada and in U.S. you know, people say, where can I get your book?
Speaker B:And I say, you know what, Just go to your favorite bookstore and ask them to order it for you.
Speaker B:It's not going to be.
Speaker B:It's not going to be instant, but hey, they're going to get a sale out of it.
Speaker B:They're going to say, here's this.
Speaker B:Here's this oddball book from Winnipeg.
Speaker B:And it's just a. I just like that way of buying books myself.
Speaker B:So I always encourage it.
Speaker B:I also actually encourage people to ask for it at the library because in Canada that actually helps authors quite a bit.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker A:I'm a big library.
Speaker A:Or we go usually.
Speaker A:Well, once a month.
Speaker A:We'll get a whole.
Speaker A:Just stack.
Speaker A:Everybody gets a stack.
Speaker A:The four of us go.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's a.
Speaker A:An adventure.
Speaker A:And then we usually go for lunch afterwards.
Speaker A:It's a, you know, it's.
Speaker A:It's a big thing.
Speaker A:And the kids love to read, they love to create, they love to write.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And, you know, it's all.
Speaker B:You're showing that it's fun.
Speaker B:You're showing that it's fun to go and do that and then just make an event of it.
Speaker B:Like, that's.
Speaker B:I think it's a lovely way to engage with reading.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:We're probably going to cap it off here.
Speaker A:I think we've kind of covered just a little bit of everything.
Speaker A:What's the best place to get a hold of you if people want to ask questions about the book or ask about any of your other stuff?
Speaker A:What's the best place to go?
Speaker B:You can find me on my website.
Speaker B:It's davidyounefuller.com and the Yon is spelled Jo N. I'm on Blue sky fairly often and I'm on Instagram.
Speaker B:Instagram.
Speaker B:But I'll be honest, sometimes Instagram I don't quite get the.
Speaker B:The flow of feed.
Speaker B:Sometimes I'll see stuff that I thought was current and it's two weeks ago, even though I'm on Friday, you know, people can message me via my website.
Speaker B:That's probably reliable because it goes to my email.
Speaker B:But yeah.
Speaker B:And if people also see me at a reading or somewhere, just come up and say hi.
Speaker B:I'd love to talk to people who want to talk about books.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You've been very accommodating.
Speaker A:Thanks for coming on the show.
Speaker A:This is great.
Speaker A:I learned a lot of stuff.
Speaker A:I get to talk about stuff I like talking about, which is good.
Speaker A:Happy birthday, Todd.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Happy birthday, Todd.
Speaker B:Even though I haven't met, I hope it was a fantastic day.
Speaker A:Thank you for listening and we'll see you next week.
Speaker A:And bye.
Speaker A:Have a good day.
